LOL yep that info helps guys, I think I'll get a box and try. I'm also going to pick up a box of the FA 260 Harcores and try. It looks like the FA's are showing better velocity but they are also twice the money. I have no problems with spending money for premium bullets if I need too but why spend the money on them if the XTP gets the job done. I'm basicly just trying to squeeze a little more velocity out of the 454 but the 300's are shooting good if the lighter bullets don't.