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#73375 - 08/14/10 08:27 AM What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs?
Matabele
journeyman


Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 51

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Hi all,

I apologise if this is something pretty obvious but could someone explain what the differences are between each design? I assume it relates to meplat diameter? What effect do the different designs have on accuracy, terminal performace etc.? Do you aim to shoot each in a certain velocity range for best accuracy?

Oh and what is the difference bewteen a boolit and bullet, if any? Never heard of a boolit before today.

Im new to all this but man its fun once you get into the details!

Thanks in advance!

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#73388 - 08/14/10 01:54 PM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: Matabele]
doc with a glock
old hand


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 972
Loc: Montana, USA

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matabele,

I'll try to answer a few of these questions. The term "boolit" is "slang" for a cast bullet, jacketed being called a "bullet. LFN = long, flat nose, long ogive (taper from shank - bore diameter part of the bullet) to the nose, and generally a smaller meplat (flat nose). WFN = wide, flat nose, shorter ogive and wider meplat. WLN = wide long nose, this is a hybridized description, kinda of a blend between the two previously mentioned types. Much of the language comes from Veral Smith of LBT molds. However, in bullets with the same overall length, the bullet with a longer shank, and hence shorter ogive, tends to stabilize better (assuming the right rate of rifling twist for the velocity) then the shorter shank bullet and usually results in better extended range accuracy. Again, one has to determine the maximum range they expect for the use of the bullet. A wide flat nose bullet tends to disrupt tissue to a greater degree, causing a larger wound channel and possibly less penetration than a bullet with a smaller meplat; but, it is less aerodynamic and tends to be "less" stable and accurate at longer ranges.

That is a very brief answer to your inquiry, something that is covered in volumes; however, I hope it answers your questions. If anyone disagrees with my understanding, please correct and enhance our understanding of this "complex" boolit subject.

Doc

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#73393 - 08/14/10 04:53 PM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: doc with a glock]
Whitworth
Shootist


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 9836
Loc: Virginia

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I would add that a WFN has to have a meplat that is roughly 82% of the diameter of the bullet -- if my memory serves me correctly.
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#73400 - 08/14/10 08:03 PM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: doc with a glock]
Tigger
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Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 4704
Loc: Western New York

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Great referance for cast boolits;

LBT site


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#73417 - 08/15/10 08:14 AM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: Tigger]
Matabele
journeyman


Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 51

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Thanks for the info everyone. So basically a WFN would be a good short range cruncher while a LFN would be a good bet for longer shots if you can get the required velocity.

Which type do you all use for hunting, assuming mid range shots? Have you noticed any differences in termianl performance between types on actual kills?

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#73418 - 08/15/10 08:40 AM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: Tigger]
430man
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Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 694

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I make my own molds and have bought a bunch of LBT boolits over the years. I don't see much difference in how they kill or shoot. The Lee boolits with a RNFP also work super.
I cut a little on the cherry making the nose and finish with a file until it looks good so none of mine are the same. I find as long as the boolit provides guidance at the forcing cone and rifling start, they shoot.
I can not get that with any Keith style and they just shoot decent. I will not make a Keith mold.
It is not exactly true that a WFN loses stability. Seems like the problems come from shooting a heavy boolit with light charges and not reaching the spin rates they need. For some reason revolver shooters ignore twist.
I gave up all of the ideas that weight forward or to the rear means anything. How much nose is out of the brass means nothing either, just work loads because there is a pressure change with seating depth.
A WLN is supposed to shoot more stable but I can't prove that. One of my best is a .475 PB boolit with an 80% meplat that will do under an inch at 100 yards if I do my part.
I used to sit with paper and boolit pictures for weeks trying to figure the correct design but do better on the lathe just making what looks OK, One grease groove, two or three, nose that I like, etc. Drive bands all over the place from thin to wide.
I don't like the Keith and will not shoot a boolit with a bevel base. Anything else you choose can be made to shoot. Just stay in the weight range and drive length for the rifling.
Don't expect a 320 gr .44 boolit to shoot at 800 fps or too light of a boolit out of velocity either. Let your gun decide where the boolit needs to be shot.
The hole in the top of this can was made with 5 shots at 100 yards from my 45-70 BFR with sort of a RNFP. It is like a WLN with a little more curve to the ogive. The other holes are from a rifle.

Then I shot this can twice at 100 yards with my .475 BFR and my 80% meplat PB boolit. It is the one one the left. The other was shot at 200 yards.

Don't be concerned with terminology, find what your gun likes for boolit weight and find the load for it.
I can only say I could never do this with a Keith style, they have NO nose guidance. There are too many old wives tales floating around. Since I started making my own molds and seeing almost anything shoot like crazy, I don't believe anything in print. I shoot revolvers to 500 meters, you will never see me shoot 25 yards unless to prove a point.


Edited by 430man (08/15/10 09:20 AM)

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#73419 - 08/15/10 08:51 AM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: 430man]
430man
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Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 694

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For Keith lovers, I did many tests with my .44. I used the RCBS 245 gr Keith style. It is a good close range plinking boolit.
I will never shoot it with soft lead because it deforms and slumps. I started with water dropped WW's and went harder to 28-30 BHN. As I got harder accuracy improved. I used 231 and Unique powders.
The first picture is 25 and 50 with a .22 bhn boolit.

The second is a very hard boolit from 28 to 30 BHN. 25 and 50 yards. This is the BEST I ever done with a Keith style in over 50 years. Compare with ANY nose guided boolit.

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#73420 - 08/15/10 09:05 AM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: 430man]
430man
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Posts: 694

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I have shot WFN boolits better at 200 yards then I can shoot a Keith at 50 yards. It is not strange, it is mechanical.
The WLN is also great so I made a mold and it came out 330 gr for my SBH. I decided to match the 11* forcing cone close with the nose to see what would happen. It shoots great and I wanted to measure the 200 yard drop with a 75 yard setting. I shot 3 shots and was kind of surprised with a 1-5/16" group.

Then I bought a 265 gr RD mold made by Lee for my Marlin but the rifle is hopeless with the 1 in 38" twist. I tried it in my old SBH at 50 and 100. It will do 3/4" all day at 50 and 1-1/4" at 100. I was hitting low, nicking the rail so I aimed higher for the last shot.


Edited by 430man (08/15/10 09:08 AM)

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#73421 - 08/15/10 09:18 AM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: 430man]
430man
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Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 694

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I want to make it EASY for you. The revolver can make your head spin with accuracy.
Whitworth knows I am nuts and reject anything over 1" at 50 yards.
Don't read gun comics, they are just funny!

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#73437 - 08/15/10 04:40 PM Re: What is the diff btwn LFN, WFN and WLN designs? [Re: 430man]
johnwilliams
Shooting Master


Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 3755
Loc: illinois

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430man,thanks for the info.I go with real world experience then "old wives tales".
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