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#197032 - 01/09/19 11:21 PM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: 45MAN]
tradmark
Gun Slinger


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2843

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 Originally Posted By: 45MAN
STUMBLED UPON SOME MAGNUM RESEARCH "DESERT EAGLE 480" REVOLVERS ON GUNBROKER, 7.5 INCH'ers WITH THE BISLEY GRIP FRAME. LOOK LIKE BFR REVOLVERS BUT INSTEAD OF BEING 475L/480R THEY ARE JUST 480 RUGER. BESIDES NOT BEING CHAMBERED DEEP ENUFF FOR 475L, ARE THERE ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES? WHY DID MAGNUM RESEARCH GO WITH JUST THE 480 CHAMBERING?



Rey, for awhile magnum research made the gun in a dedicated 480 caliber. Jack can open it up to 475 is ya want, but its the same
Quality piece the current guns are!

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#197035 - 01/10/19 07:18 AM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: tradmark]
45MAN
old hand


Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 1011
Loc: brownsville, texas

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IF YOU HAVE BULLET INTEGRITY, AND AN APPROPRIATE MEPLAT, FOR REVOLVERS THE TKO FORMULA TELLS US THAT BIGGER (MORE DIAMETER), HEAVIER AND FASTER ALL CONTRIBUTE TO A HIGHER TKO VALUE, AND MY EXPERIENCE IS THAT HIGHER TKO VALUES TRANSLATE TO BETTER RESULTS IN THE FIELD, BUT YOU GOTTA HAVE BULLET INTEGRITY AND AN APPROPRIATE MEPLAT.
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"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.

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#197036 - 01/10/19 10:20 AM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: tradmark]
Whitworth
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Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 9383
Loc: Virginia

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 Originally Posted By: tradmark
 Originally Posted By: Franchise
I couldn't agree more. If your bullet is up to it, velocity is a HUGE asset! Thors hammer is a lot more effective when thrown than when tossed.



Welll said, and whit you couldnt be more right. There has been some big misconceptions bandied about for years in the worldof handgun hunting that i feel are just wrong wrong wrong! If your bullet will take it, velocity is what makes a bigger wound channel and when you actually kill big animals. A 357 with the proper expandable like an aframe will make a much bigger wound channel than a 475 cal at a minimal velocity like 900 fps. Ive seen my fair share of large bovines and elk along with oryx take alot of killing that it makes me wonder what some are talking about.


Exactly. Somewhere someone advanced this narrative that 1,200 fps is all you need for anything in North America (I'm oversimplifying). Yes, at those levels they kill, but I like imparting the greatest impact possible with my chosen firearm. But, that's just me.
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Bovine Bullet Test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

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#197037 - 01/10/19 10:30 AM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: Whitworth]
Jeff460
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Registered: 12/01/17
Posts: 112
Loc: Kansas

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I agree with more velocity to a point. The venerable 45 Colt does not equal the velocity of the 454 Casull due to a lower pressure threshold. Yet the 45 Colt can be as effective in bringing down what requires killing, loaded to its safe levels with hard cast bullets. With a wide meplat included with its construction.
High pressure increases velocity but that is not the end all consideration. High pressure also increases recoil velocity. Low pressure with big bullets is still effective for penetration. Momentum imparted is key. After the bullet strikes bullet weight and bullet integrity takes over.

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#197038 - 01/10/19 11:21 AM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: Jeff460]
Whitworth
Shootist


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 9383
Loc: Virginia

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 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
I agree with more velocity to a point. The venerable 45 Colt does not equal the velocity of the 454 Casull due to a lower pressure threshold. Yet the 45 Colt can be as effective in bringing down what requires killing, loaded to its safe levels with hard cast bullets. With a wide meplat included with its construction.
High pressure increases velocity but that is not the end all consideration. High pressure also increases recoil velocity. Low pressure with big bullets is still effective for penetration. Momentum imparted is key. After the bullet strikes bullet weight and bullet integrity takes over.


Cast bullets are the limiting factors here. It's easy to overtax them. Use a quality bullet that can handle high impact velocities and the .454 runs away from the .45 Colt. I have found that lighter monometal solids (lighter than the equivalent length cast bullet will handily out penetrate cast bullets, and I'm talking in flesh, not wet newsprint or ballistic gel.

I agree that cast bullets need to be held to lower velocities and then there is a much better chance that the nose survives and it will then continue to track straight and impart damage. I just seen so many failures during the Bovine Bash that I am leary using them on anything that has big and heavy support bones. Some we have used have worked exceptionally well (like Garrett's offering). I only wish the Garretts had bigger meplats.

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Bovine Bullet Test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

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#197040 - 01/10/19 12:40 PM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: Whitworth]
Jeff460
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Registered: 12/01/17
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Agreed. Cast bullets are the limiting factor. But who says that more and more velocity is warranted? If dead is dead, then what more is needed? If the central nervous system is broken, the effects will be at that instance. If the lungs are punctured all the way through, then "ropes" of blood will pour out from both of the entrance and exit holes, drilled through the rib-cage as the animal bounds away. Just as excessive bullet weight adds nothing to killing power when taken to the extreme. The 700 grain 500 Smith and Wesson magnum load comes to mind here. The addition of more and more velocity reaches diminishing returns.

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#197041 - 01/10/19 01:00 PM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: Jeff460]
Jeff460
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Registered: 12/01/17
Posts: 112
Loc: Kansas

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Penetration through one animal and into a hill on the other side is wasted and excessive force. Penetration through one animal and into another is excessive also. An example is warranted. On a hunt for Cape Buffalo in Africa, a 45/70 with a heavy cast bullet was used. At the shot the heavy cast bullet penetrated through the target buffalo and continued on to hit another buffalo on the other side. Both succumbed to the injury. That meant that over-penetration occurred, and collateral damage ensued.
If more velocity is always necessary, than why are lower velocity and lower pressure offerings offered by the factory ammunition suppliers like HSM and Federal allowed? Would that not lead to more wounding by doing so? No it does not. The shot is placed, by the odds, more accurately and the lower velocity works well with the bullets selected.
Big bovines deserve deepest penetration and I understand your premise. Just realize that moderation from extremes is a very efficient balance contest that can even apply to the big bovines of the animal kingdom.

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#197042 - 01/10/19 01:12 PM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: Whitworth]
wildcatter
journeyman


Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 52

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 Originally Posted By: Whitworth
 Originally Posted By: 45MAN
STUMBLED UPON SOME MAGNUM RESEARCH "DESERT EAGLE 480" REVOLVERS ON GUNBROKER, 7.5 INCH'ers WITH THE BISLEY GRIP FRAME. LOOK LIKE BFR REVOLVERS BUT INSTEAD OF BEING 475L/480R THEY ARE JUST 480 RUGER. BESIDES NOT BEING CHAMBERED DEEP ENUFF FOR 475L, ARE THERE ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES? WHY DID MAGNUM RESEARCH GO WITH JUST THE 480 CHAMBERING?


For the same reason some folks go .45 Colt only in FA 83s. Some I guess believe they don't need more and that is that. However, if they are referring to them as Desert Eagle .480s, they likely simply don't know what they are talking about and the revolvers in question could easily be .475 Linebaughs.


I am taking it that BFR no longer, makes a 480 only? I am asking this because at one time they did offer factory 480 Ruger only gun's.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/791649058

Is this something they no longer offer, and today it is 480/475 only? At any rate, a bunch of us missed a great buy on that one!

Now to the more is better,, yes and no. If your chasing the baddest thing on earth we have all seen even the 45 Colt has taken the biggest animal's around, but I am siding with error if I am treading where they are! Give me that big .475 or even .500 stuffed with rock's and dynamite as Bradshaw puts it!

But if it's Whitetail Antelopes even Mt. Lions, I'll take loaded down .45 or .480 with a less than hard cast with a a proper alloy to allow fast expansion at the lower velocity and still stay together for an even quicker kill. Make it Elk to Moose, hard cast WLFN's with a little more dynamite behind em.

The joy of big bores and cast bullets is the range of applications they fill and allow different situations that a variety of configurations and alloys to meet each with as good as it gets performance.

Like Whitworth said, when it gets really tough, and I don't want mauled or eaten, the solid in the bigger heavier configuration, with large meplats and full stoked loads of dynamite pushing them is what I would want. This is what makes the bigger bores my favorite revolvers, and so interesting tailoring loads for them, to about anything.


Edited by wildcatter (01/10/19 01:18 PM)

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#197044 - 01/10/19 02:35 PM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: Jeff460]
Whitworth
Shootist


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 9383
Loc: Virginia

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 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
Agreed. Cast bullets are the limiting factor. But who says that more and more velocity is warranted? If dead is dead, then what more is needed? If the central nervous system is broken, the effects will be at that instance. If the lungs are punctured all the way through, then "ropes" of blood will pour out from both of the entrance and exit holes, drilled through the rib-cage as the animal bounds away. Just as excessive bullet weight adds nothing to killing power when taken to the extreme. The 700 grain 500 Smith and Wesson magnum load comes to mind here. The addition of more and more velocity reaches diminishing returns.


There are no degrees of dead and therefore there is no such thing as too much killing power. Our revolvers do not possess the capacity of generating velocity to a point of diminishing returns. There are simply too many limitations built into the platform.
_________________________
Max Prasac

Semper Fidelis

Bovine Bullet Test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s


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#197045 - 01/10/19 02:50 PM Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY [Re: Jeff460]
Whitworth
Shootist


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 9383
Loc: Virginia

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
Penetration through one animal and into a hill on the other side is wasted and excessive force. Penetration through one animal and into another is excessive also. An example is warranted. On a hunt for Cape Buffalo in Africa, a 45/70 with a heavy cast bullet was used. At the shot the heavy cast bullet penetrated through the target buffalo and continued on to hit another buffalo on the other side. Both succumbed to the injury. That meant that over-penetration occurred, and collateral damage ensued.
If more velocity is always necessary, than why are lower velocity and lower pressure offerings offered by the factory ammunition suppliers like HSM and Federal allowed? Would that not lead to more wounding by doing so? No it does not. The shot is placed, by the odds, more accurately and the lower velocity works well with the bullets selected.
Big bovines deserve deepest penetration and I understand your premise. Just realize that moderation from extremes is a very efficient balance contest that can even apply to the big bovines of the animal kingdom.


Keep in mind that when one chooses flat-nosed hardcast bullets it is for its penetrative ability. When you get an exit, it's considered a bonus. You don't often get exits on large bovines. I remember when Brian Pearce told me that story about his twofer in Africa. More than likely, if the round exited buffalo one and killed buffalo two, not heavy bone got in its way, and impeded its forward march. That said, he was not using hardcast bullets, he used CorBon Penetrators, but that's neither here nor there. I won't argue that harder recoil is not handled well by most handgunners, but there are plenty of folks who have chosen this path and can readily handle heavy recoil. It's something that normally one works up to, but there is no free lunch. Big calibers loaded to potential punish on both ends. Nope, when the animal weighs more than six or seven Virginia whitetail bucks, I want "excessive" performance. There is nothing more unsettling than when a "dead" bovine reanimates. Trust me.
_________________________
Max Prasac

Semper Fidelis

Bovine Bullet Test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s


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