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#196554 - 12/12/18 09:46 AM Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer.
rob-c
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Registered: 07/01/12
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Loc: upstate NY

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So a little back story on why I want to shoot the shoulders, our new lease is 67 acres and I shot a medium sized doe in the shoulder with a 240 grain xtp out of my 44 ( not on purpose ) and she ended up running on a second bordering property that after I called for permission to track on was denied.
When I hunted with my 357 mag Blackhawk with180 grain hardcast 22bhn always aimed for the shoulder and always had entrance and exit and all deer would go down in sight. So I am looking at two bullets in the 44mag 260 grain weight, one 15 bhn and the other 22 bhn. The 15 bhn is a better deal price wise and meplat difference is only . 324 15bhn bullet vs .320 for the 22bhn bullet. So will a 15 bhn bullet be hard enough to not get a bunch of nose damage after hitting the first shoulder or should I go for the 22bhn. FYI I am not interested in casting my own .
Thanks for the help..


Edited by rob-c (12/12/18 10:04 AM)

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#196558 - 12/12/18 10:27 AM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: rob-c]
MS Hitman
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Personally, I would go with the harder bullet. I cast the Lyman 429421 and water drop those bullets, yet to recover one from a deer regardless of shot presentation. The difference in meplat is inconsequential in my opinion.

Montana Bullet Works makes a good bullet. I shoot the 200 grain LFN in my .38-40 at 1,300 fps and have not recovered any those either.

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#196561 - 12/12/18 12:55 PM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: MS Hitman]
Paul_H
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Registered: 11/29/18
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Unfortunately some animals just don't die quickly even with a fatal shot. I don't think you had bullet failure, but you have no idea where the bullet hit or if it failed or not as you weren't able to recover the animal to determine what happened.

If you absolutely have to anchor an animal on the spot, then a brain or spine shot is what you need to make. You'll never get 100% blam flops on heart lung shots.

As to bhn, if you're pushing that bullet to ~1500 fps the 44 mag is capable of, I'd consider 15 bhn on the soft side and would lean towards the 22 bhn as the better choice for that application.

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#196562 - 12/12/18 02:32 PM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: Paul_H]
rob-c
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 Originally Posted By: Paul_H
Unfortunately some animals just don't die quickly even with a fatal shot. I don't think you had bullet failure, but you have no idea where the bullet hit or if it failed or not as you weren't able to recover the animal to determine what happened.

If you absolutely have to anchor an animal on the spot, then a brain or spine shot is what you need to make. You'll never get 100% blam flops on heart lung shots.

As to bhn, if you're pushing that bullet to ~1500 fps the 44 mag is capable of, I'd consider 15 bhn on the soft side and would lean towards the 22 bhn as the better choice for that application.


The doe stopped about 40 yards from my son and he got a really good look at her and it was 100% in the shoulder, I also watched her not use that leg when she ran. When he went to pull up and shoot her again she bolted .

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#196566 - 12/12/18 08:22 PM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: rob-c]
Zee
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Registered: 03/23/14
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Still an unknown.

Not saying you?re right. Not saying you?re wrong. I?m saying the result of the shot and what you actually hit (internally) is unknown.

Until all aspects are known, one cannot decidedly blame any one entity. It could be shooter. It could be bullet. It could be both.

Unknown.

If switching bullets gives you more confidence. By all means......do so. But without complete facts.............all else is speculation and assumption. Not that those are wrong. But, they are what they are. A speculation and an assumption.
_________________________
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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#196567 - 12/12/18 08:54 PM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: Zee]
rob-c
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 Originally Posted By: Zee
Still an unknown.

Not saying you?re right. Not saying you?re wrong. I?m saying the result of the shot and what you actually hit (internally) is unknown.

Until all aspects are known, one cannot decidedly blame any one entity. It could be shooter. It could be bullet. It could be both.

Unknown.

If switching bullets gives you more confidence. By all means......do so. But without complete facts.............all else is speculation and assumption. Not that those are wrong. But, they are what they are. A speculation and an assumption.

Ok, so never had this problem shooting hardcast in my 357 ,always reached vitals. So I want a bullet that will get to the vitals when I don?t make a ideal shot. So I speculate the xtp did not do its job considering I tracked her easily 8 to 900 yards before having to stop and this is after a 30 min wait. One can make a logical assumption that the bullet did not do significant damage.


Edited by rob-c (12/12/18 08:57 PM)

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#196568 - 12/12/18 09:11 PM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: rob-c]
Zee
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Or you missed the vitals?
_________________________
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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#196570 - 12/12/18 09:15 PM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: Zee]
Zee
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Out of curiosity, how did you track her 900 yards?

Tracks? Blood? That?s a little over 1/2 mile. Damn good tracking!
_________________________
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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#196571 - 12/12/18 09:20 PM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: Zee]
Zee
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And I?m not arguing for or against you by any means. I am just one who likes to explore all the possibilities in the absence of facts/evidence.

It makes for great conversation and keeps us honest with ourselves. In the end, we hopefully learn. One way or the other.

👍🏻
_________________________
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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#196572 - 12/12/18 09:23 PM Re: Brindle hardness for shooting shoulders on deer. [Re: Zee]
rob-c
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Registered: 07/01/12
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Loc: upstate NY

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[quote=Zee]Or you missed the vitals? [/quot
Right because the bullet did not penetrate the shoulder,plenty of proof of xtp?s not holding together on heavy bone. As I said before never had this problem with hardcast out of my 357.i

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