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#190909 - 03/23/18 12:10 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: sixshot]
Snyd
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Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 297
Loc: The Last Frontier

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 Originally Posted By: sixshot
....Heavy bullets, reasonable velocity & great accuracy will get you there, again just my thoughts.

Dick


This is the "thought that counts" !

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#190911 - 03/23/18 01:28 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: Snyd]
sixshot
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Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 550

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Rey, this is what I've done with cast bullets for over 50 years & it's done pretty well for me with very little adjustment. I've posted this formula on several forums & sometimes you need to bump it up a point or down a point but it's seemed to be really dependable for me on game up through hogs, many elk, my bull moose & African plains game, beyond that I can't offer any advice because I have no experience on the megatrons.
Here's what I've always done as far as alloys but remember one thing about wheel weights, they've changed over the years & that's why you "might" need to juggle them up or down one point from what I post. Earlier WW's had a bit more antimony than later WW's, like 4% for the older & the later one's something like 2% so there's a slight difference making the old one's a bit more brittle.
So, here's my formula & I always start out at 1000 fps.

1000 fps I use 70% wheel weights & 30% pure lead
1100 fps I use 80% wheel weights & 20% pure lead
1200 fps I use 90% wheel weights & 10% pure lead

Above 1200 fps I just used straight WW alloy, air cooled.

Going the other way now.

900 fps I used 60% wheel weights & 40% pure lead
800 fps I used 50% wheel weights & 50% pure lead

This has always been really close to ideal to get good penetration on lower 48 big game, good accuracy, accuracy & zero to very minor leading with correct fitting in the throats.
As I said, you might have to juggle this up or down one point depending on your supply of wheel weights.
I've never felt the need to add expensive tin & in the photo's below are some of the animals taken including a few elk with the 41 & 44 magnum with full penetration, one was almost length ways with the 41 magnum & a 230 gr Keith bullet & it did exit.
The bear is a 6 1/2 ft bear taken with a 44 flat top OM with an exit (one of seven)
The bullet is my normal 70/30 alloy & was one of few recovered from a very large feral hog after pulverizing both front shoulders from a 480 or 475. Almost 1" expansion & only lost 2 grs!!














Dick


Edited by sixshot (03/23/18 07:12 PM)

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#190921 - 03/23/18 06:39 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: sixshot]
45MAN
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Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 717
Loc: brownsville, texas

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IN 41 & 44 MAG AND 45 COLT, WHAT ARE GOOD BULLET WEIGHTS FOR DEER, ANTELOPE AND AVERAGE BLACK BEARS? WHAT ABOUT FOR BIGGER BLACK BEARS AND ELK? SOME OF YOU REFER TO "HEAVY" BULLETS BUT I AM NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.
_________________________
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.

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#190923 - 03/23/18 08:03 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: 45MAN]
Raptortrapper
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Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 3461
Loc: Colorado

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45 Colt is one of my favorites. I like the heavier bullets in all my guns. In 45 Colt, I prefer the 335gr hardcast from Cast Performance.

I have no experience with the 41 or 44.
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A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!

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#190938 - 03/24/18 02:00 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: Raptortrapper]
sixshot
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Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 550

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Rey, again I can just give you my opinion, take it for what it'w worth. In the 41 magnum I've used a 230 gr Keith bullet from a very old Saeco mold for about 45 years & have no idea how many deer I've taken with it but it would be dozens for sure. Also elk & 1 bear. The elk with the shoulder rig laying on it & me in the red shirt & you can see a piece of fat sticking out of the left hip. She was trotting up through the sagebrush & spotted my mule tied to a tree above me. When she stopped she was almost facing me but I could slip a 41 slug just behind the right front shoulder with my 8 3/8's Nickel S&W.
The bullet got one lung, the intestines hit a kidney & exited just in front of that left hip, she ran in a little circle for 5-6 seconds & piled up. It almost went through her length ways.
The cow elk that's laying in the snow was taken at 168 yds with an OM Ruger 45 & a 260 gr Keith & 23.5 grs of H110. My buddy "Duck" was shooting her with the range finder as I set up on my walking stick & got lucky with a double lung shot that threw blood in all directions, she was down & out in 20 yds.
Not sure I can tell you what a hard cast bullet is, not sure anyone has the same idea on hard cast. I make my bullets as soft as I can make them & still maintain accuracy. If accuracy starts to fall off & I don't think my load is fast enough then I make the bullet a bit harder. My #1 goal is accuracy & I always get exits.
My last cow elk was very big & was taken with a 250 gr LBT 41 magnum bullet at (I think) 74 yds. The bullet broke both front shoulders & exited, she never took a single step.
The 250 gr in a 41 is a heavy bullet in my opinion, a 280-300 gr bullet is a heavy bullet in a 44 magnum & a 275-325 gr bullet in the 45 Colt is a heavy weight, just my opinion.
I'm guessing you've taken a great deal of game with 45's & have a pretty good handle on what does & doesn't work as does several others here on the forum.
I do think you can "over bullet" any caliber & it's time to move up to something bigger, I'll say it one more time, just my opinion.

Dick


Edited by sixshot (03/24/18 02:14 AM)

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#190939 - 03/24/18 02:22 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: sixshot]
sixshot
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Registered: 11/20/09
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Rey, these were taken in Montana, Wyoming & Utah using a 357 Maximum, a 44 special Bisley, a 41 mangum, a very special 7 1/2" 44 special Bisley & a Ruger 45 Colt. All using cast bullets at around 1100-1200 fps except for the 357 Maximum. I used a 204 gr cast bullet at about 1450 fps on some of those doe's & a Utah doe antelope at 123 yds.
The Montana doe tags are $75 & I usually buy 2-3 & use a different gun on each one & shoot one a day along the Beaverhead River.













Dick

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#190940 - 03/24/18 09:21 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: sixshot]
cherokeetracker
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Registered: 11/27/15
Posts: 403

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Dick, I have a question concerning a recent purchase of some bullets. It is a cast hollow point 225gr in the 45 caliber.
Cast with 2-2-96 alloy (tin-antimony-lead)
My question is about how fast should I go for with these? I was thinking about 1000 FPS should be max?,, but haven't loaded any yet.

And yes, I did read what you said about the accuracy part. I may have to slow them down to 950 but figured you might know of a good starting point.
My throats on the Pistol are all .4525 and usually I get little or no leading with the hard cast bullets I have used. Barrel is a custom one.
Charles

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#190946 - 03/24/18 12:47 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: cherokeetracker]
45MAN
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Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 717
Loc: brownsville, texas

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DICK: BTW, I REALLY ADMIRE ALL THE KILLING YOU HAVE DONE WITH OPEN SIGHT REVOLVERS OVER THE YEARS. THERE WERE PROBABLY MANY TIMES YOU WISHED YOU HAD A LONGER RANGE SCOPED HANDGUN BUT YOU OBVIOUSLY STUCK WITH THE OPEN SIGHT REVOLVERS.
_________________________
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.

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#190951 - 03/24/18 02:24 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: 45MAN]
sixshot
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Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 550

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Charles, that should be a very good bullet at 1000 fps but I'm guessing with a good barrel you can exceed that with no problem if the bullets are flat base instead of bevel base.
You'll just have to load some & give them a test drive. The 45 is a superb game killer & does it with modest recoil. I've taken 4 elk with mine. All with iron sights & Keith bullets, except for that calf in the above photo, it was with a 325 gr LBT in my 5 1/2" Bisley.

Dick

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#190953 - 03/24/18 03:50 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: sixshot]
cherokeetracker
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Registered: 11/27/15
Posts: 403

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Thank you Dick. I am excited about the bullet since it is a Keith style SWC-HP Flat base.
Pistol is the Ruger Bisley with 4 5/8 barrel.
Hopefully will get to load Monday.

Charles

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