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#189425 - 02/05/18 08:14 PM SRH 454 CASULL load data questions
Holler
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Registered: 01/29/18
Posts: 8

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Hello, I recently jumped back into handgun hunting, after a twenty year hiatus, and I've been trying to get some load development dialed in for my Super Redhawk.
My background is mainly custom bolt rifles, I was into highpower matches for several years(sling,coat,glove)and of course that means making match grade ammo at the loading bench.

So here's my concern. I buy a Ruger SRH in 454 Casull and start cooking up some loads, putting them through two different chrony's and none of my speeds are anywhere near published data. I seem to average 200-260 feet per second slower than the data.
I'm not interested in max speeds, more interested in accurate loads but I am concerned that a load with the same brass, bullet,powder,primer,crimp and barrel length would be so far off.
I went with 240 XTP MAG, 300 XTP MAG,Cast Performance 265 WFN and
300 LFN both gas checked. I poured over all the published load data and went with H110/W296(bought both as they are the same and they only had one pound of each)

Here is a sample of some of my data. Does this seem odd to guys who know a lot about 454 casull handloading?

Starline brass new and sized.
H110 29.8 grains.
CCI 450
CP 300 LFN GC
COL 1.790"
average speed 1359

Same load with 30.3
Average 1376

Everything I have read shows 30 grains H110 as Max load and speeds of 1600-1700. So what gives?

I have several more loads but for the sake of taking up space, I'll jump to the chase.

I called Ruger and they of course wanted my serial number, they said that my gun was manufactured in September '17 and no problems were reported during that run. They said go shoot some factory loads, so I did. I bought a box of hornady 240xtp mag, that states 1900 fps from a 7.5" test barrel,I called and asked about the test barrel. Well in my gun with 7.5 " barrel through two different chrony's I got 1640 and 1652 for 6 shot strings. Now I could understand getting 1750 or 1800 but 1640??? That's quite a bit of difference.

Am I wrong to be concerned?

Anyway after messing around, shooting close to 300 handloads, I did get a accurate load.
32.8 H110
CP 300 LFN GC
WSR primer
Starline brass
Average speed 1552 sd 29

Anyway I got a RA number to return the unit back to Ruger but I haven't done so yet. I wanted some advice from the forum.
Thanks for any help you can provide.




Edited by Holler (02/05/18 10:37 PM)

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#189431 - 02/05/18 08:48 PM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: Holler]
s4s4u
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Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 9494
Loc: Northern MN

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I don't load the 454, but I never get close to published data with a revolver. They typically don't use revolvers to test loads, but rather closed breech barrels with no cylinder gap to bleed off pressure. One doesn't necessarily need blistering speed from their handgun to be effective.

 Quote:
32.8 H110
CP 300 LFN GC
WSR primer
Starline brass
Average speed 1552 sd 29


I think this would be a very effective load.
_________________________
Rod, too.

Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.

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#189433 - 02/05/18 09:11 PM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: s4s4u]
Holler
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Registered: 01/29/18
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Thanks, as I mentioned Max speeds are not the objective. I was concerned that given the same components my data is way way off.
Has anybody else put factory loads through the chrony and been 250 plus slower? Same barrel length???

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#189437 - 02/05/18 09:42 PM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: Holler]
KRal
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Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 6079
Loc: MS

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Your barrel/cylinder gap is what makes the difference; as S4s4u stated. I had a custom gun smith tell me that for every .001" over .002" of BC gap, you'll lose 80-100 fps per .001" (depending on gun). So check your BC. If it's .005" or greater, that'll explain your difference.

Before I had a barrel set back on a 10.5" barrel RBH, my 7.5" Freedom Arms shot the same load 175 fps faster than the 10.5" barrel.
_________________________
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.

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#189441 - 02/05/18 11:05 PM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: KRal]
billa
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 662
Loc: Central PA

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I agree that you probably have a wide cylinder gap. It?s easy to check with a feeler gauge. Check all cylinders with the gun cocked and the hammer at rest to see if there is variation.
_________________________
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... "
Matthew 28:19

Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since!
HHI member #992, NRA, SCI.

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#189448 - 02/06/18 07:13 AM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: billa]
Holler
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Registered: 01/29/18
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Well then, I will be checking BC gap, today.
Thanks

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#189456 - 02/06/18 11:10 AM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: Holler]
JDK
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Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 114
Loc: Texas Hill Country

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As much as I do love revolvers, that cylinder gap will always be a negative, for velocity, anyway. Luckily, we're flush with enough potent rounds to make it a non-issue for any game.
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But for the grace of God, there, I go.

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#189478 - 02/06/18 05:15 PM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: JDK]
Walkingthemup
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Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 401
Loc: this side of the black stump

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The other area that can cause significant velocity loss is the cylinder throat and barrel groove diameter. Older Ruger 454's have a bad reputation in this area. Your groove diameter should match or be a tad tighter than your projectile diameter. The cylinder throats should be approx a thou larger. If they are oversize then you get poor accuracy and a lot of velocity loss due to gasses blowing past the projectile. This condition will also cause significant leading with cast projectiles.

The cylinder throats are best measured with pin gauges. If you don't have pin gauges, try taking one of your XTPs and passing it through the cylinder. If it falls through then its too lose. If it needs a gentle push, with a pencil etc, then it's about right. The barrel can be measured by slugging with a soft lead slug.

You said your SRH was manufactured in 2017 so hopefully the above problems don't apply but should be checked to make certain.

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#189497 - 02/07/18 10:33 AM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: Walkingthemup]
Holler
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Registered: 01/29/18
Posts: 8

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I appreciate the information you guys have shared.
I called Ruger, again, and asked about the cylinder gap specs. I was told the acceptable range on Super Redhawks is .004" - .011"
That seems like a pretty large range. I mean one guy could buy a tighter gapped gun and have a very different load development process.
Can anybody answer this...Are we as revolver owners just supposed to accept that these units can be so varied ? Are we supposed to say " my gun only gets xxxx fps with a max powder charge and there's nothing I can do about it??? I'm not sure if I'm expecting too much from a Ruger revolver product, I mean it is not a custom built firearm.
Who rebuilds these revolvers? I'm thinking that the best option is to go full custom. Ruger didn't seem too keen on rebuilds? They said "send it in and we'll shoot it, we'll check the tolerances" which made me feel like they're gonna send it back and say "We found no problems, it's within acceptable tolerances" but acceptable tolerances for a factory build production gun can be crap.
I feel like I bought a sports car and it's way too loose on the track.
Again, thanks for the information y'all have shared.

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#189503 - 02/07/18 11:53 AM Re: SRH 454 CASULL load data questions [Re: Holler]
KRal
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Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 6079
Loc: MS

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Well, there's something you can do about it without going full custom.
Two options:
1. Send to gunsmith for barrel set back to .002".
2. Buy a Freedom Arms

A barrel setback is an inexpensive upgrade to pickup another 100-400 fps (depending on your gun).
_________________________
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.

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