#100904 - 01/20/12 08:33 PM
Big Bore Subsonic Questions?
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TheSmurf
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Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
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Hello to all :o) First post here. Read through many pages before bothering y'all. I'm looking to get a long range (300-400 yards) subsonic thumper. Was considering either 475 or 500 JRH. Regardless of bullet weight, preferred velocity is between 1000 and 1100 fps. Was leaning toward 50 cal so I could resize .50/70 Government bullets that should/may offer better long range accuracy?? Any input on accuracy potential vs. larger meplat designs? Also, at these low velocities, is recoil in a scoped handgun (4.3 pounds total weight) still severe enough to hamper long range accuracy?? Thank You :o)
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#100907 - 01/20/12 08:59 PM
Re: Big Bore Subsonic Questions?
[Re: TheSmurf]
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BBwheelgunner
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Registered: 11/21/09
Posts: 602
Loc: Bemidji, Minnesota
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Just my two cents,
but I think that trigger quality plays a bigger role (atleast for me) than does heavy recoil. So what I am getting at is if the trigger on your gun is nice and crisp without over travel or excessive creep and breaks at a reasonable weight, you will not be anticipating the recoil as much and are less likely to flinch. because it is lower pressure loads you are looking at, I think you will be fine.
there are a few guys on here with those calibers that may be of more help for you then me. Welcome to the site!
_________________________
"If you are going to go through all the trouble to put a hole in something, why not make it a big one?"
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#100908 - 01/20/12 09:17 PM
Re: Big Bore Subsonic Questions?
[Re: BBwheelgunner]
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wtroper
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 764
Loc: Hereford, Tx
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My thought is that a subsonic round needs a very high ballistic coefficient. That is usually a "heavy for caliber" bullet. For the 475s or 50s, that is 400-500 grs. You do not indicate your intended use. However, you might be better served with a 338 or even a 30 caliber. The whispers produced by SSK industries (J D Jones) are highly regarded in the subsonic range. He makes them in all sizes. Might want to talk to him. He is wealth of information.
_________________________
It's more important where you hit 'em, than what you hit 'em with.
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#100912 - 01/20/12 09:42 PM
Re: Big Bore Subsonic Questions?
[Re: wtroper]
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TheSmurf
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Registered: 01/20/12
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Thanks for the input fellas :o) I was thinking 400 grains in 475 and 440-500 grains in 500 JRH (whatever will fit?) I've been looking into the old blackpowder rounds for ideas, i.e. 45-70 and 50-70. The latter lobs 500 grains at around 1100 fps. No personal experience with either round though. I was hoping to stay with a revolver platform for a small and light package. Also, I can load cast for almost nothing = lots of practice. Again, sincerely grateful for all input :o)
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#100917 - 01/20/12 09:52 PM
Re: Big Bore Subsonic Questions?
[Re: wtroper]
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Gregg Richter
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Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1725
Loc: Pine, Colorado
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My thought is that a subsonic round needs a very high ballistic coefficient. That is usually a "heavy for caliber" bullet. For the 475s or 50s, that is 400-500 grs. You do not indicate your intended use. However, you might be better served with a 338 or even a 30 caliber. The whispers produced by SSK industries (J D Jones) are highly regarded in the subsonic range. He makes them in all sizes. Might want to talk to him. He is wealth of information.
Exactly, good advice, West Texas Roper.
http://sskindustries.com/cartridges
_________________________
http://www.hunterseyevideo.com Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and told them, "Multiply and fill the earth and subdue it. Be masters over the fish and birds and all the animals."
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#100939 - 01/21/12 03:04 AM
Re: Whisper Calibers
[Re: Gregg Richter]
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TheSmurf
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Registered: 01/20/12
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I am familiar with the Whispers. Maybe I need to reconsider them. I had given up on them because they tend to use spitzer type projectiles and I don't think I'd get any expansion from them at low velocity. Such a stable, pointy, non-expanding projectile should make a relatively small wound channel, even at .50 inch? This assumes no impact with heavy bones. Still, the Whispers have been mentioned elsewhere as well. As such, it would be foolish for me to not at least explore them further.
Thanks Again for the help :o)
Edited by TheSmurf (01/21/12 03:18 AM)
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#100940 - 01/21/12 03:10 AM
Re: High BC Needed?
[Re: TheSmurf]
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TheSmurf
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Registered: 01/20/12
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I have some experience shooting smaller calibers at long range. Some of these projectiles had exceedingly poor ballistic coefficients and still turned in pretty fair groups at distances up to 300 yards. However, they were of the round nose type and started out at 1050 fps or lower. I am mostly ignorant regarding long range big bore performance with wider flat point projectiles. Anything I can learn from the experience of others is greatly appreciated.
Thank You :o)
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#100943 - 01/21/12 05:27 AM
Re: Big Bore Subsonic Questions?
[Re: TheSmurf]
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wapitirod
Distinguished Master
Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 5669
Loc: Tillamook, Oregon
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Thanks for the input fellas :o) I was thinking 400 grains in 475 and 440-500 grains in 500 JRH (whatever will fit?) I've been looking into the old blackpowder rounds for ideas, i.e. 45-70 and 50-70. The latter lobs 500 grains at around 1100 fps. No personal experience with either round though. I was hoping to stay with a revolver platform for a small and light package. Also, I can load cast for almost nothing = lots of practice. Again, sincerely grateful for all input :o)
Although it weighs a little more have you though about a BFR in 45-70 or finding a used long cylinder BFR and having it chambered in 50-70? It sounds like your basicly wanting a short barreled sharps for long range plinking so if that's the case you could actually use black powder. I had the 7.5" version in 45-70 and I still was able to get 1650 with a 440gr so a 500gr at 1100fps should be pretty easy especially if you go to a longer barrel.
_________________________
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.- John Wayne http://www.dixiefirearms.net
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#100948 - 01/21/12 08:23 AM
Re: Whisper Calibers
[Re: TheSmurf]
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SChunter
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1311
Loc: Coastal SC
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I don't think I'd get any expansion from them at low velocity. Such a stable, pointy, non-expanding projectile should make a relatively small wound channel, even at .50 inch?
Smurf, reading up on those with probably the most terminal experience with the cartridges (Doc Rogers, JD) the bullets will not have conventional expansion performance given their impact velocity, but will rather have the "yaw and tumble" effect once they impact. Surprisingly efficient with large wound channels and short blood trails 
I've got a bunch of 240 SMK's to try in my fast twist 300 Whisper
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#100967 - 01/21/12 01:14 PM
Re: Big Bore Subsonic Questions?
[Re: TheSmurf]
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s4s4u
Distinguished Expert
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 4378
Loc: Northern MN
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I'm curious as to what you plan to thump at 400 yards with a .475 and what optic you plan to use. I just ran some rough numbers and you should have about an 84" midrange trajectory with a 400 yard zero and about 306" of total drop with a MV of 1,100. That is a lot of clicks ;-)
Impact energy around 550 ft lbs with that 400 grain bullet, which actually ain't bad considering the distance.....
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Rod, too.
Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
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