reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
01/10/20 09:34 AM
Step by step 357 project

I know most of you are very gun savvy but some are a little newer to handguns and handgun hunting. I am going to start a thread showing before and after results on my 357 Blackhawk. I decided to just copy the post I started on this project from the Tennessee Handgun Hunters group on FB. as the parts all arrive I will update the thread here as well. Here goes....

We already know that these guns are capable of 2" groups at 100 yards. The first steps to improving the accuracy of one of these guns is a thorough inspection. Obviously the first thing to check is the barrel. You should look for pitting, metal deposits, damage to the muzzle or cracks, leading or erosion at the forcing cone. In this case all of these items are in great shape.

The gun 1974 new model pre-warning blackhawk


testing accuracy with a known accuracy load at 25 yards from a rest over 3". Unacceptable from a gun that I know can shoot 2" at 100 yards.



To be continued..............

Next is the base pin. On a gun of this age wear is expected. On this particular gun there are rough spots and bumps. Close examination of the frame and cylinder reveal moderate wear on both surfaces. This results in a condition known as end shake. This is a definite detriment to accuracy. Fortunately there is a cure for this too.




Now we want to look at the cylinder gap and clearance at the gas shield which is the boss that the base pin protrudes through in to the cylinder. In this case the cyl gap is .004" and so is the gas shield clearance.
.004" is on the far end of acceptable but within limits. Gas shield clearance on a gun such as this should be between .001" and .002". This will have to be addressed but not a major issue.





H2OBUG
(Pooh-Bah)
01/10/20 09:58 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Interested to see how it goes. I have ben looking for a older Bisley 7.5" in 357 to do the same. Have a 44 and 45 that shoot very well. As you say 2"ish at 100 yds

I had a model 28 6" S&W I mounted a 2x Leupold on. I shot cast bullets in one hole at 50 yards.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
01/10/20 06:43 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Those Bisley 357s are slightly hard to come by. You can always buy a Blackhawk and turn it into a Bisley.

45MAN
(Pooh-Bah)
01/11/20 08:25 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

R264: KEEP IT COMING

jamesfromjersey
(Shootist)
01/11/20 05:28 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

your not kidding about unacceptable 25yd accuracy
a .004" gap is not to bad...

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
01/13/20 12:49 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

The end shake bad on this one as is the 4lbs 14oz trigger. Last part on the way.

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
01/20/20 07:01 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Well the parts are all in. Now for some time to get this underway!

N-Frame
(journeyman)
01/20/20 10:59 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

May I ask what your "known accuracy" load is? I'm always looking for accurate loads.

jcp161
(member)
01/21/20 08:23 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Interesting thread.

Learning some things and very interested to see the end result.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
01/21/20 09:28 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

158 XTP
GM200M primer
15.8grs H110
Starline case

Never saw a good tight gun that wouldn't shoot bug holes with that load.


N-Frame
(journeyman)
01/21/20 01:16 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Thank you.

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
01/22/20 08:55 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

I am going to try to do this Saturday. I could have just done it but I want to document this for educational purposes. I know most of you are pretty savvy working on your guns but there are many newbees here that I feel like can benefit from a general idea of what makes these things work.

junebug
(Pooh-Bah)
01/22/20 06:13 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: reflex264
I know most of you are pretty savvy working on your guns but there are many newbees here that I feel like can benefit from a general idea of what makes these things work.


Even old dogs can learn new tricks. WOOF WOOF


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/06/20 06:36 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

It is dismantled. I discovered a lot of wear on the cylinder latch and the pin that holds it. I ordered new parts to replace these as well. I am going to try to start putting back Saturday and documenting what I am doing. This isn't meant to be a complete assembly/disassembly thread. I a hoping to show what to do to get one shooting that has seen better days.



dasbear
(member)
02/08/20 08:44 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

After being away from HHM for way Tooo long I stumble into the exact tutorial I need.
I've been trying to get a new model .41 mag bisley BH 7.5" to shoot better than 8"@25 yes hand loads, factory ammo to no avail. I will be watching this one very close.


dasbear
(member)
02/17/20 06:39 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Anything new to report on this project? Hope all your parts are going together smoothly.

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/18/20 11:12 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Yes. I will update in a few days. I am going to have to fit a new hammer plunger to the SBH hammer. I have it but haven't had time to fit it. the rest of the work is done. It locks up like a bank vault now.

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/18/20 11:18 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Here is a pic assembled with new parts. drastic improvement. Will fit hammer this week.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/18/20 11:22 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: dasbear
After being away from HHM for way Tooo long I stumble into the exact tutorial I need.
I've been trying to get a new model .41 mag bisley BH 7.5" to shoot better than 8"@25 yes hand loads, factory ammo to no avail. I will be watching this one very close.


Have you done any measurements on it yet?
Inspect muzzle crown?
Measure cylinder throats?
Slug bore?
Cylinder gap?
Clearance at gas ring?
Check forcing cone for cracks or erosion?
If so let us know what is going on.


dasbear
(member)
02/19/20 04:16 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Sorry it took a while to look up the numbers. I found my fils reciept for this RBH Bisley 1982.
Cyl gap .006, cyl pin shroud gap .002+, cyl/breach face .0015, cyl throats .4105-.411 slugged, barrel bore .399-.4105 slugged, cyl pin and cyl wear I can feel it but not really see it. The cyl locking lug looks worn but the cyl stops appear clean and crisp. A question for you reflex264 how do I tell what to replace and can I order upsized parts to alieviate the worn out parts? Hope I didn't leave anything out if so let me know.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/19/20 06:26 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: dasbear
Sorry it took a while to look up the numbers. I found my fils reciept for this RBH Bisley 1982.
Cyl gap .006, cyl pin shroud gap .002+, cyl/breach face .0015, cyl throats .4105-.411 slugged, barrel bore .399-.4105 slugged, cyl pin and cyl wear I can feel it but not really see it. The cyl locking lug looks worn but the cyl stops appear clean and crisp. A question for you reflex264 how do I tell what to replace and can I order upsized parts to alieviate the worn out parts? Hope I didn't leave anything out if so let me know.


If you are familiar and comfortable disassembling the gun remove the latch and measure it where it engages the cylinder. Check the fit of the pin inserted through the latch. On the 357 is was necessary to replace the pin and latch.



dasbear
(member)
02/19/20 09:25 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Yes quite comfortable with disasembly and rebuild just need to know what I'm looking at and what the acceptable tolerances are.

With .006 cyl. gap will the barrel need to be to be "set back"??


dasbear
(member)
02/20/20 12:33 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

I got a start on dismanteling the BH but will have to finish this weekend.

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/20/20 09:24 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

It shouldn't hurt accuracy much but will affect velocity some. Guess right now is a belt mountain base pin and a new latch and pin will work wonders. How is the trigger?

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/20/20 09:48 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project



3/4" after work but will be better.


RBO21
(journeyman)
02/21/20 04:46 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Nice work!

jamesfromjersey
(Shootist)
02/21/20 08:26 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

big improvement over original group... \:o


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/22/20 01:01 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

.675" from sighting in this morning at 25. Had to go to work. If I get home in time moving out to 100 yards.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/22/20 01:02 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: jamesfromjersey
big improvement over original group...
\:o


Thanks. its getting there.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/22/20 01:02 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: RBO21
Nice work!


Thanks. A work in progress.


dasbear
(member)
02/23/20 11:02 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Aarg! I got all the obvious and easy parts removed but not in the correct order this caused some hang ups with trigger & hammer pins and had to take a break till now. Its all dismanteled and ready for inspection. The trigger is very smooth my FIL had work done on it and feels similar to how I setup my tcs, haven't checked for wear or damage yet im going back out now to list parts that may need attention. The 3 parts you mentioned do you have a link to get those from?

dasbear
(member)
02/24/20 12:11 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Aarg! I got all the obvious and easy parts removed but not in the correct order this caused some hang ups with trigger & hammer pins and had to take a break till now. Its all dismanteled and ready for inspection. The trigger is very smooth my FIL had work done on it and feels similar to how I setup my tcs, haven't checked for wear or damage yet im going back out now to list parts that may need attention. The 3 parts you mentioned do you have a link to get those from? Oh shoot cant find link for uploading pics???

dasbear
(member)
02/24/20 12:13 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

I think I just scrambled my reply?

dasbear
(member)
02/24/20 12:32 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Wow very impressed with the improvement

dasbear
(member)
02/24/20 12:50 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

I just need to varify your recommended parts to start with
Belt mt base pin, cyl. lock and trigger pin?

I noticed detent pin & spring in hammer assembly was missing the retention pin I should replace that correct?


45MAN
(Pooh-Bah)
02/24/20 07:34 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

DASBEAR: I BELIEVE REFLEX264 WAS DOING A REBUILD ON A WELL WORN OLDER REVOLVER. A NEWER REVOLVER CAN BE TWEAKED TO SHOOT BETTER WITH A LOT LESS WORK THAN A REBUILD.

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/24/20 08:15 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: dasbear
I just need to varify your recommended parts to start with
Belt mt base pin, cyl. lock and trigger pin?

I noticed detent pin & spring in hammer assembly was missing the retention pin I should replace that correct?


The new super blackhawk hammer takes a longer plunger. I already have the new one but haven't had time to change it. I ended up working all weekend. I may shoot it at 100 yards before changing hammers. I already did a trigger job with the old hammer. Getting it perfect on another hammer is at least an hour job.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/24/20 08:17 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: 45MAN
DASBEAR: I BELIEVE REFLEX264 WAS DOING A REBUILD ON A WELL WORN OLDER REVOLVER. A NEWER REVOLVER CAN BE TWEAKED TO SHOOT BETTER WITH A LOT LESS WORK THAN A REBUILD.


True. This gun was wore out. I am going to have to get all of the details on one thread. I keep having to start and stop. lol


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/24/20 08:18 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: dasbear
Aarg! I got all the obvious and easy parts removed but not in the correct order this caused some hang ups with trigger & hammer pins and had to take a break till now. Its all dismanteled and ready for inspection. The trigger is very smooth my FIL had work done on it and feels similar to how I setup my tcs, haven't checked for wear or damage yet im going back out now to list parts that may need attention. The 3 parts you mentioned do you have a link to get those from? Oh shoot cant find link for uploading pics???


I will dig up links to the parts and post them.


dasbear
(member)
02/25/20 03:38 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

reflex264 thanks for your assistance on this project I pretty much gave up on this pistol #1 if it wasn't going to shoot I'll just let it rot in the safe to teach it a lesson. I knew ruger SA's were capable of at least 4in at 100yds and for a hunting revolver thats all I need so after seeing the results of your work I felt encouraged to give it another shot.
I did find Belt mt base pin so hope to have that soon but not sure where to get the cyl lock, trigger/hammer pins ect;.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/25/20 08:22 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

https://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=ruger+latch&ksubmit=y

Don't buy the over sized latch for your gun. A new factory latch
and pin will tighten it up if your cylinder isn't badly worn. Can you take a good close up of the bolt tab on your latch and also measure it? The oversize latch in a stock gun/chambering can take a long time to fit correctly because it also affects timing. It is great to help control movement in a boomer especially when blocked for lateral movement.


dasbear
(member)
02/25/20 12:45 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: 45MAN
DASBEAR: I BELIEVE REFLEX264 WAS DOING A REBUILD ON A WELL WORN OLDER REVOLVER. A NEWER REVOLVER CAN BE TWEAKED TO SHOOT BETTER WITH A LOT LESS WORK THAN A REBUILD.


45MAN As a complete novice to revolvers how does one determine wether a tweak or a complete teardown is necessary short of sending it off to a professional pistol smith and waiting for the sticker shock $$$ hammer to drop? I took an interest in this thread because I want the same end result as reflex264 2-4" at 100yds. If my 50.00 in parts + my time doesn't work out at least its cheap entertainment.


reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
02/25/20 02:11 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: dasbear
 Originally Posted By: 45MAN
DASBEAR: I BELIEVE REFLEX264 WAS DOING A REBUILD ON A WELL WORN OLDER REVOLVER. A NEWER REVOLVER CAN BE TWEAKED TO SHOOT BETTER WITH A LOT LESS WORK THAN A REBUILD.


45MAN As a complete novice to revolvers how does one determine wether a tweak or a complete teardown is necessary short of sending it off to a professional pistol smith and waiting for the sticker shock $$$ hammer to drop? I took an interest in this thread because I want the same end result as reflex264 2-4" at 100yds. If my 50.00 in parts + my time doesn't work out at least its cheap entertainment.


Excessive cylinder movement is the biggest clue to wear problems.End shake, lateral movement and timing issues are usually a red flag. There are other things that aren't noticeable until the revolver is disassembled. I wish you were nearby. I would be glad to help get yours shooting. Once I get the whole process put together and posted it will make more sense. For the present issues and as bad as yours is shooting I would order the belt mountain pin, a new cylinder latch, latch and hammer pin. How is your trigger? It makes a difference as well.


dasbear
(member)
03/07/20 11:35 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Sorry for the delay of info as multi tasking between gun projects has little to offer in completing either very quick. I recieved my parts for the RBH 41 cyl latch, cyl latch spring, 30oz trigger return spring, 19# hammer spring, cyl pin latch spring, pawl spring and belt mtn base pin. As mentioned the trigger and hammer had been done by my FIL at <3# pull the new 30 oz spring makes trigger feel mushy but I will test fire before replacing heavier return spring. A couple of setbacks to note cyl latch was over sized previously I was unaware so I reinstalled it(.090) the new latch measured .0875. 2nd issue BM base pin still too small the wobble is less but I feel can still be improved I most likely will go to a POWER CUSTOM base pin. After completing the assembly I measured head space at almost .007 (sb .002-.005?) Itook it down to .005 now barrel to cyl gap is .007 which will require sending gun out to have barrel set back to .002-.003. Anyone do feel free to comment if I took a wrong turn in my process I will be going out to test fire today but still need to reload for my 357 max contender before heading out.

dasbear
(member)
03/17/20 03:34 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Made it out shooting this week with a 2x32 scope made it much easier on my eyes my best groups at 40 yds were about 1.5-2" 3 shots 2 touching with 1up or down in most groups which indicated inconsistent ignition. I was useing WLP PRIMERS so just to be sure I duplicated all loads with CCI LPM primers and went back out saturday with target set at 25yds and replacing 2x scope with a 2-7 burris made all the difference. Loads with 210gr xtp, H110 and 240gr LFNGC with H110 going 1/2-1inch at 25yds I will be posting pics soon just to make sure I'm not blowing smoke. Much thanks to reflex264 for showing how to bring old revolvers back to life

45MAN
(Pooh-Bah)
03/17/20 06:53 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: dasbear
Made it out shooting this week with a 2x32 scope made it much easier on my eyes my best groups at 40 yds were about 1.5-2" 3 shots 2 touching with 1up or down in most groups which indicated inconsistent ignition. I was useing WLP PRIMERS so just to be sure I duplicated all loads with CCI LPM primers and went back out saturday with target set at 25yds and replacing 2x scope with a 2-7 burris made all the difference. Loads with 210gr xtp, H110 and 240gr LFNGC with H110 going 1/2-1inch at 25yds I will be posting pics soon just to make sure I'm not blowing smoke. Much thanks to reflex264 for showing how to bring old revolvers back to life


NICE, VERY NICE, ALWAYS GREAT TO GET GOOD GROUPS.


dasbear
(member)
03/17/20 01:26 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Ultimately velocity and accuracy are my goal because the Blackhawk will be used as a hunting handgun for bear and maybe blacktail deer.

reflex264
(Pooh-Bah)
03/18/20 04:52 PM
Re: Step by step 357 project

Certainly better! Definitely on the right track.

Hard to get anything done when you work. lol


dasbear
(member)
03/20/20 09:33 AM
Re: Step by step 357 project

 Originally Posted By: reflex264
Certainly better! Definitely on the right track.

Hard to get anything done when you work. lol


Someone told me once, when you get a bunch of guns you can retire and have fun I been trying my hand at that. lol
Crap! I still gotta feed em all. Worse then kids I say.