45MAN
(veteran)
01/06/19 04:29 PM
DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

STUMBLED UPON SOME MAGNUM RESEARCH "DESERT EAGLE 480" REVOLVERS ON GUNBROKER, 7.5 INCH'ers WITH THE BISLEY GRIP FRAME. LOOK LIKE BFR REVOLVERS BUT INSTEAD OF BEING 475L/480R THEY ARE JUST 480 RUGER. BESIDES NOT BEING CHAMBERED DEEP ENUFF FOR 475L, ARE THERE ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES? WHY DID MAGNUM RESEARCH GO WITH JUST THE 480 CHAMBERING?

Jeff460
(member)
01/09/19 10:23 AM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

It really could be because the 480 Ruger can be loaded with bullets seated out, with the only limitation being the length of the cylinder over all. If that is available, there is no loading difference between 480 Ruger and the 475 Linebaugh.
It is just like a 44 magnum bullet with a crimping groove set to maximize the available space in a Ruger Redhawk revolver cylinder. It effectively is putting the weight outside the case and that allows more powder to be available inside the case. Just my opinion though.


Whitworth
(Shootist)
01/09/19 11:32 AM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: 45MAN
STUMBLED UPON SOME MAGNUM RESEARCH "DESERT EAGLE 480" REVOLVERS ON GUNBROKER, 7.5 INCH'ers WITH THE BISLEY GRIP FRAME. LOOK LIKE BFR REVOLVERS BUT INSTEAD OF BEING 475L/480R THEY ARE JUST 480 RUGER. BESIDES NOT BEING CHAMBERED DEEP ENUFF FOR 475L, ARE THERE ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES? WHY DID MAGNUM RESEARCH GO WITH JUST THE 480 CHAMBERING?


For the same reason some folks go .45 Colt only in FA 83s. Some I guess believe they don't need more and that is that. However, if they are referring to them as Desert Eagle .480s, they likely simply don't know what they are talking about and the revolvers in question could easily be .475 Linebaughs.


Paul_H
(journeyman)
01/09/19 11:36 AM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
It really could be because the 480 Ruger can be loaded with bullets seated out, with the only limitation being the length of the cylinder over all. If that is available, there is no loading difference between 480 Ruger and the 475 Linebaugh.
It is just like a 44 magnum bullet with a crimping groove set to maximize the available space in a Ruger Redhawk revolver cylinder. It effectively is putting the weight outside the case and that allows more powder to be available inside the case. Just my opinion though.


Dittos, though IMHO 400 gr @ 1200 fps isn't too shabby and that's where I load my 480 at. With 475 length bullets you have might find you get better accuracy due to the smaller powder column being friendlier with those "milder" loads.

While I have loaded the 480 to 1300+ with 400's, the felt recoil increases significantly.

The 480 as is has always been what I wanted, a shootable big bore revolver.


Jeff460
(member)
01/09/19 01:30 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

The BFR 480 Ruger is a nice cartridge in a very nice revolver. At 1200 FPS and 400 grains it is a real hammer and all that is needed. Weight is a constant and velocity always diminishes. Momentum imparted is what BIG Bore revolvers are all about.

Whitworth
(Shootist)
01/09/19 02:28 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
At 1200 FPS and 400 grains it is a real hammer and all that is needed. Weight is a constant and velocity always diminishes. Momentum imparted is what BIG Bore revolvers are all about.


All that is needed for what? I have found that a 400 + grain bullet at 1,400 fps is more of what is needed on bigger critters, LOL!

All joking aside, as long as the bullet is up to the task, velocity is your friend.


Jeff460
(member)
01/09/19 05:47 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

Velocity is OK up to your threshold limit and what you can shoot accurately. At an extreme low velocity, a sedate 950 fps with a heavy (400 grains and up) hard-cast, gas-check bullet it is possible to bring down a buffalo. It takes a buffalo some time to expire because of its great size normally.
But sending a heavy bullet over 2000 fps will increase recoil and make accurate bullet placement less likely IF the revolver makes you flinch from the concussion of force. High velocity can also reduce penetration of heavy hard cast bullets as tests have shown. So 1350 fps to 1400 fps is a good maximum to reach. 1200 fps is a good minimum for penetration reliability.
A Cutting-Edge solid bullet can also be a good penetration asset at top velocity due to ultimate bullet integrity. It exhibits this being made of only one tough metal. It will not be deformed from higher velocity as a hard cast bullet might.
But I digress. Use what you can safely shoot and hit your mark with. And use a bullet that will perform as your needs dictate. Animals deserve our best efforts to kill them quickly and humanely.
So velocity is good, but bullet integrity/performance and bullet placement is more important in making a clean kill.


Whitworth
(Shootist)
01/09/19 08:06 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
Velocity is OK up to a threshold limit and what you can shoot accurately. At an extreme low velocity, a sedate 950 fps with a heavy (400 grains and up) hard-cast, gas-check bullet you can bring down buffalo. But sending a heavy bullet over 2000 fps will increase recoil and make accurate bullet placement less likely. High velocity can also reduce penetration as tests have shown. So 1350 fps to 1400 fps is a good maximum to reach. 1200 fps is a good minimum for penetration reliability.
A Cutting Edge solid bullet can also be a good penetration asset at top velocity due to ultimate bullet integrity. But I digress. Use what you can safely shoot and hit your mark with. And use a bullet that will perform as your needs dictate.


Velocity is definitely an asset if your bullets are up to the task. Only lousy expanding bullets and hardcast bullets benefit from lower velocities. I don?t know who?s testing you are referring to but mine show the opposite results excluding cast bullets and bad expanding bullets. I?ve used CEBs on water buffalo in Argentina and again the more velocity the merrier. You can kill buffalo with 950 fps loads but it will likely be a slow drawn out process. I don?t like slow drawn out processes when hunting and especially hunting big and potentially dangerous game.

Even with cast bullets, if the bullet can handle it and maintain its nose profile, 1,400 is better than 1,200. Yes, recoil comes at a cost and this is why handgun hunting isn?t for everyone.


Franchise
(Distinguished Expert)
01/09/19 08:16 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

I couldn't agree more. If your bullet is up to it, velocity is a HUGE asset! Thors hammer is a lot more effective when thrown than when tossed.

tradmark
(Gun Slinger)
01/09/19 11:16 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Franchise
I couldn't agree more. If your bullet is up to it, velocity is a HUGE asset! Thors hammer is a lot more effective when thrown than when tossed.



Welll said, and whit you couldnt be more right. There has been some big misconceptions bandied about for years in the worldof handgun hunting that i feel are just wrong wrong wrong! If your bullet will take it, velocity is what makes a bigger wound channel and when you actually kill big animals. A 357 with the proper expandable like an aframe will make a much bigger wound channel than a 475 cal at a minimal velocity like 900 fps. Ive seen my fair share of large bovines and elk along with oryx take alot of killing that it makes me wonder what some are talking about.


tradmark
(Gun Slinger)
01/09/19 11:21 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: 45MAN
STUMBLED UPON SOME MAGNUM RESEARCH "DESERT EAGLE 480" REVOLVERS ON GUNBROKER, 7.5 INCH'ers WITH THE BISLEY GRIP FRAME. LOOK LIKE BFR REVOLVERS BUT INSTEAD OF BEING 475L/480R THEY ARE JUST 480 RUGER. BESIDES NOT BEING CHAMBERED DEEP ENUFF FOR 475L, ARE THERE ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES? WHY DID MAGNUM RESEARCH GO WITH JUST THE 480 CHAMBERING?



Rey, for awhile magnum research made the gun in a dedicated 480 caliber. Jack can open it up to 475 is ya want, but its the same
Quality piece the current guns are!


45MAN
(veteran)
01/10/19 07:18 AM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

IF YOU HAVE BULLET INTEGRITY, AND AN APPROPRIATE MEPLAT, FOR REVOLVERS THE TKO FORMULA TELLS US THAT BIGGER (MORE DIAMETER), HEAVIER AND FASTER ALL CONTRIBUTE TO A HIGHER TKO VALUE, AND MY EXPERIENCE IS THAT HIGHER TKO VALUES TRANSLATE TO BETTER RESULTS IN THE FIELD, BUT YOU GOTTA HAVE BULLET INTEGRITY AND AN APPROPRIATE MEPLAT.

Whitworth
(Shootist)
01/10/19 10:20 AM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: tradmark
 Originally Posted By: Franchise
I couldn't agree more. If your bullet is up to it, velocity is a HUGE asset! Thors hammer is a lot more effective when thrown than when tossed.



Welll said, and whit you couldnt be more right. There has been some big misconceptions bandied about for years in the worldof handgun hunting that i feel are just wrong wrong wrong! If your bullet will take it, velocity is what makes a bigger wound channel and when you actually kill big animals. A 357 with the proper expandable like an aframe will make a much bigger wound channel than a 475 cal at a minimal velocity like 900 fps. Ive seen my fair share of large bovines and elk along with oryx take alot of killing that it makes me wonder what some are talking about.


Exactly. Somewhere someone advanced this narrative that 1,200 fps is all you need for anything in North America (I'm oversimplifying). Yes, at those levels they kill, but I like imparting the greatest impact possible with my chosen firearm. But, that's just me.


Jeff460
(member)
01/10/19 10:30 AM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

I agree with more velocity to a point. The venerable 45 Colt does not equal the velocity of the 454 Casull due to a lower pressure threshold. Yet the 45 Colt can be as effective in bringing down what requires killing, loaded to its safe levels with hard cast bullets. With a wide meplat included with its construction.
High pressure increases velocity but that is not the end all consideration. High pressure also increases recoil velocity. Low pressure with big bullets is still effective for penetration. Momentum imparted is key. After the bullet strikes bullet weight and bullet integrity takes over.


Whitworth
(Shootist)
01/10/19 11:21 AM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
I agree with more velocity to a point. The venerable 45 Colt does not equal the velocity of the 454 Casull due to a lower pressure threshold. Yet the 45 Colt can be as effective in bringing down what requires killing, loaded to its safe levels with hard cast bullets. With a wide meplat included with its construction.
High pressure increases velocity but that is not the end all consideration. High pressure also increases recoil velocity. Low pressure with big bullets is still effective for penetration. Momentum imparted is key. After the bullet strikes bullet weight and bullet integrity takes over.


Cast bullets are the limiting factors here. It's easy to overtax them. Use a quality bullet that can handle high impact velocities and the .454 runs away from the .45 Colt. I have found that lighter monometal solids (lighter than the equivalent length cast bullet will handily out penetrate cast bullets, and I'm talking in flesh, not wet newsprint or ballistic gel.

I agree that cast bullets need to be held to lower velocities and then there is a much better chance that the nose survives and it will then continue to track straight and impart damage. I just seen so many failures during the Bovine Bash that I am leary using them on anything that has big and heavy support bones. Some we have used have worked exceptionally well (like Garrett's offering). I only wish the Garretts had bigger meplats.



Jeff460
(member)
01/10/19 12:40 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

Agreed. Cast bullets are the limiting factor. But who says that more and more velocity is warranted? If dead is dead, then what more is needed? If the central nervous system is broken, the effects will be at that instance. If the lungs are punctured all the way through, then "ropes" of blood will pour out from both of the entrance and exit holes, drilled through the rib-cage as the animal bounds away. Just as excessive bullet weight adds nothing to killing power when taken to the extreme. The 700 grain 500 Smith and Wesson magnum load comes to mind here. The addition of more and more velocity reaches diminishing returns.

Jeff460
(member)
01/10/19 01:00 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

Penetration through one animal and into a hill on the other side is wasted and excessive force. Penetration through one animal and into another is excessive also. An example is warranted. On a hunt for Cape Buffalo in Africa, a 45/70 with a heavy cast bullet was used. At the shot the heavy cast bullet penetrated through the target buffalo and continued on to hit another buffalo on the other side. Both succumbed to the injury. That meant that over-penetration occurred, and collateral damage ensued.
If more velocity is always necessary, than why are lower velocity and lower pressure offerings offered by the factory ammunition suppliers like HSM and Federal allowed? Would that not lead to more wounding by doing so? No it does not. The shot is placed, by the odds, more accurately and the lower velocity works well with the bullets selected.
Big bovines deserve deepest penetration and I understand your premise. Just realize that moderation from extremes is a very efficient balance contest that can even apply to the big bovines of the animal kingdom.


wildcatter
(journeyman)
01/10/19 01:12 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Whitworth
 Originally Posted By: 45MAN
STUMBLED UPON SOME MAGNUM RESEARCH "DESERT EAGLE 480" REVOLVERS ON GUNBROKER, 7.5 INCH'ers WITH THE BISLEY GRIP FRAME. LOOK LIKE BFR REVOLVERS BUT INSTEAD OF BEING 475L/480R THEY ARE JUST 480 RUGER. BESIDES NOT BEING CHAMBERED DEEP ENUFF FOR 475L, ARE THERE ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES? WHY DID MAGNUM RESEARCH GO WITH JUST THE 480 CHAMBERING?


For the same reason some folks go .45 Colt only in FA 83s. Some I guess believe they don't need more and that is that. However, if they are referring to them as Desert Eagle .480s, they likely simply don't know what they are talking about and the revolvers in question could easily be .475 Linebaughs.


I am taking it that BFR no longer, makes a 480 only? I am asking this because at one time they did offer factory 480 Ruger only gun's.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/791649058

Is this something they no longer offer, and today it is 480/475 only? At any rate, a bunch of us missed a great buy on that one!

Now to the more is better,, yes and no. If your chasing the baddest thing on earth we have all seen even the 45 Colt has taken the biggest animal's around, but I am siding with error if I am treading where they are! Give me that big .475 or even .500 stuffed with rock's and dynamite as Bradshaw puts it!

But if it's Whitetail Antelopes even Mt. Lions, I'll take loaded down .45 or .480 with a less than hard cast with a a proper alloy to allow fast expansion at the lower velocity and still stay together for an even quicker kill. Make it Elk to Moose, hard cast WLFN's with a little more dynamite behind em.

The joy of big bores and cast bullets is the range of applications they fill and allow different situations that a variety of configurations and alloys to meet each with as good as it gets performance.

Like Whitworth said, when it gets really tough, and I don't want mauled or eaten, the solid in the bigger heavier configuration, with large meplats and full stoked loads of dynamite pushing them is what I would want. This is what makes the bigger bores my favorite revolvers, and so interesting tailoring loads for them, to about anything.


Whitworth
(Shootist)
01/10/19 02:35 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
Agreed. Cast bullets are the limiting factor. But who says that more and more velocity is warranted? If dead is dead, then what more is needed? If the central nervous system is broken, the effects will be at that instance. If the lungs are punctured all the way through, then "ropes" of blood will pour out from both of the entrance and exit holes, drilled through the rib-cage as the animal bounds away. Just as excessive bullet weight adds nothing to killing power when taken to the extreme. The 700 grain 500 Smith and Wesson magnum load comes to mind here. The addition of more and more velocity reaches diminishing returns.


There are no degrees of dead and therefore there is no such thing as too much killing power. Our revolvers do not possess the capacity of generating velocity to a point of diminishing returns. There are simply too many limitations built into the platform.


Whitworth
(Shootist)
01/10/19 02:50 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
Penetration through one animal and into a hill on the other side is wasted and excessive force. Penetration through one animal and into another is excessive also. An example is warranted. On a hunt for Cape Buffalo in Africa, a 45/70 with a heavy cast bullet was used. At the shot the heavy cast bullet penetrated through the target buffalo and continued on to hit another buffalo on the other side. Both succumbed to the injury. That meant that over-penetration occurred, and collateral damage ensued.
If more velocity is always necessary, than why are lower velocity and lower pressure offerings offered by the factory ammunition suppliers like HSM and Federal allowed? Would that not lead to more wounding by doing so? No it does not. The shot is placed, by the odds, more accurately and the lower velocity works well with the bullets selected.
Big bovines deserve deepest penetration and I understand your premise. Just realize that moderation from extremes is a very efficient balance contest that can even apply to the big bovines of the animal kingdom.


Keep in mind that when one chooses flat-nosed hardcast bullets it is for its penetrative ability. When you get an exit, it's considered a bonus. You don't often get exits on large bovines. I remember when Brian Pearce told me that story about his twofer in Africa. More than likely, if the round exited buffalo one and killed buffalo two, not heavy bone got in its way, and impeded its forward march. That said, he was not using hardcast bullets, he used CorBon Penetrators, but that's neither here nor there. I won't argue that harder recoil is not handled well by most handgunners, but there are plenty of folks who have chosen this path and can readily handle heavy recoil. It's something that normally one works up to, but there is no free lunch. Big calibers loaded to potential punish on both ends. Nope, when the animal weighs more than six or seven Virginia whitetail bucks, I want "excessive" performance. There is nothing more unsettling than when a "dead" bovine reanimates. Trust me.


Jeff460
(member)
01/10/19 02:58 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

Diminishing returns in regards to being able to handle the increased recoil from the higher velocity/ higher pressure loading used is what I meant.
If a big bullet at revolver generated velocities uses a bullet constructed to break bones in the legs and shoulders, and does so at velocities generated in the 460 Smith and Wesson and 500 Smith and Wesson, than what more is needed?
A 454 Casull in the 460 platform and a 500 JRH in the 500 platform should also be sufficient. The 460 can shoot a 395 grain hard cast at about 1400 to 1500 fps depending on barrel length. And a 500 JRH can shoot a 500 grain to a sufficient velocity also. So what is the need for more and more?


Whitworth
(Shootist)
01/10/19 03:11 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
Diminishing returns in regards to being able to handle the increased recoil from the higher velocity/ higher pressure loading used is what I meant.
If a big bullet at revolver generated velocities uses a bullet constructed to break bones in the legs and shoulders, and does so at velocities generated in the 460 Smith and Wesson and 500 Smith and Wesson, than what more is needed?
A 454 Casull in the 460 platform and a 500 JRH in the 500 platform should also be sufficient. The 460 can shoot a 395 grain hard cast at about 1400 to 1500 fps depending on barrel length. And a 500 JRH can shoot a 500 grain to a sufficient velocity also. So what is the need for more and more?


If I am using a .460, I'm going to load it like a .460 or there is no point in carrying the larger platform. That said, if I'm carry and hunting with a .454 or .500 JRH, I too will load them to potential. I load Punch bullets in my .500 JRHs to about 1,400 fps -- about as hot as I can while maintaining reliability. I would run them considerably faster in a .500 Smith and yes, they will impart more damage. With big, dangerous animals, more is better. Have you been on the ground with big bovines? Nothing ever seems to be too much of excessive! Don't misunderstand me here. There are lesser calibers that work great on the big stuff, but extracting the maximum reliable horsepower from them simply maximizes their terminal potential.


Jeff460
(member)
01/10/19 03:27 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

I have been around cattle all my life and I know how they react and how dangerous they can be if underestimated. I agree with all you related and echo that I use what I can shoot with most accuracy. I use 454 Casull in my 5-inch muzzle-brake equipped 460 S&W to mitigate bullet-pull prone to occur with this round when shot in lighter revolvers. And I shoot 500 JRH because a 440 grain hard cast bullet at 1400 fps in my 6.5 inch half-lug barrel length X-frame is much more controllable than the 500 S&W magnum. And by using the shorter case-length, bullet-pull tie-up is also mitigated. I do not hand load yet but a PUNCH bullet would be my pick too. Ultra reliable bullet construction integrity would be the result.
Go with God and God Bless You for being a sane voice of experience when using revolvers for hunting BIG game.


tradmark
(Gun Slinger)
01/10/19 05:07 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

I do alot of the same jeff. I load my shorter barreled 454?s a little down from my long barreled due to reliability and what i shoot best. I use a bfr 7.5? 460 bisley because it gives me max damage and performance with recoil less than top end 454 loads out of the shorter guns. In fact its less than my 10? guns. My only point was that while certain guns can get it done, nothing imparts more damage than my big 460 with appropriate bullets or an equivalent 500 smith with appropriate bullets. The 454 does really well at top end loads with bullets such as punch cen?s and aframes. Ive found the myth of the 1000 fps is all you meed to be somewhat stupifying. It can be all you need, until you hit an animal steps forward a step as your shot is going off and you no longer hit the heart or the hot zone in the vitals. Ive seen some expensive trophy fees run off never to be found due to this and what i would term bullet failure. Good points and good hunting 👍

Jeff460
(member)
01/11/19 09:59 AM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

I thank you for the kind affirmation tradmark. The reason I use what I do as platforms are because both of the X-frame revolvers weigh just over 60 ounces apiece. That weight mitigates the effects of sharp recoil. But the weight of each are just about identical. That makes both feel subjectively familiar to me. The 460 S&W has just a 5-inch barrel and the 500 S&W has just a 6.5 -inch barrel length. Shorter barrels burn gunpowder less efficiently. So I use the shorter powerful cartridges like the 454 Casull and 500 JRH to make sure less powder is wasted in a flame-out at the end of the barrel.
If an animal just moves as you squeeze the trigger and the shot hits too far back I would call it not a bullet failure, but I would call it a failure of bullet placement. Either way, a follow-up shot will be necessary. In fact it may take very many follow up shots because the animal is now alerted and churning to try and escape. Large bullets are best in a follow-up so a big bore revolver fits the bill quite well.
Good Luck and Good Shooting!!!


Sawfish
(old hand)
01/22/19 09:22 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

My BFR is a 475/480, but I have never used 475. The std. 480 Ruger will pretty much take care of anything in North America,

Jeff460
(member)
01/25/19 03:39 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

Agreed. 1200 fps with a over 400 grain hard-cast, wide-nose, gas check bullet will be in a bad state if hit with that in a vital area. By chance is your BFR 480 Ruger/475 Linebaugh with the BFR Bisley style of grip? I would love one like that, but would spend another $600.00 to have a barrel with a band at the front to pinch the back of the barrel band at the front of the ejector rod tube with the back of the BFR frame. That way you have both epoxy holding the tube to the barrel but also a mechanical method of keeping the ejector rod tube intact under heavy recoil. And yes I am all into perfecting and maximizing designs like BFR going to a Bisley style grip and adjusting the trigger guard to keep your middle finger from impacting it under heavy recoil.

Sawfish
(old hand)
01/28/19 04:28 PM
Re: DESERT EAGLE 480 BISLEY

Mine has the standard grip.